Linux for Human Beings?
See I know how people keep claiming how Ubuntu is the way forward for the desktop linux and how it’s been ‘made for humans’. Even though SUSE Desktop Enterprise edition hasn’t been released yet, I was keen on getting in on the action a little bit in advance, so I got SUSE 10.1 (it’s the full community version that’s got most of the SDE features) just so I can start getting into the groove.
It all installed more or less without too much hassle. The only problem so far has been installing my graphics card driver. I swear to god, it’s like pulling teeth. I know there has been some serious enhancements since the last time I checked in on Linux, but alas the one thing that still remains a mindfield of pain is installing a programme. In my mind it should be as easy dragging and dropping a file into a folder and just riding the installation setup. I shouldn’t have to sort out permissions and remember syntax and type in all sorts of things to get my graphics card to work (in case you were wondering, it still doesn’t actually work).
Once I get my house in order I’ll be sure to write some more indepth posts about what and why I think can still be improved regarding how Linux does things. I don’t want to critise because that’s counter productive. I’m just going to offer a helping hand in terms of how people expect certain things to work. It’ll take some time but things are generally heading in the correct direction.
I think that the “easy way to install stuff” problem is one that makes Ubuntu(and Debian) very popular. APT(the package manager) and Synaptic(Graphical version of APT) make it very easy for anyone to install anything on their systems. For example, i just reinstalled Ubuntu on my laptop, i needed to install the Nvidia drivers and it was just a simple “apt-get install nvidia-glx” from the CLI. It downloaded the package, installed the drivers and altered my xorg.conf. After restarting the window manager i’m now running with the Nvidia drivers, no hassles.
Of course most distros now have some sort of package manager, however i still haven’t found one as good as APT.
↓ Quote | 26/6/2006
gentoo’s portage tree and the emerge tool offer a lot more flexibility than the apt suite. It’s a lot easier to install custom packages thru the package manager by writing your own ebuilds, and you don’t have to compile everything if you can find a binhost. Combine with useflags (best thing since sliced bread) and optimizations (yes I know they don’t do much), and you get a lean, fast, binary. I love emerge and its python goodness, try out gentoo sometime and be impressed.
I’ll say outright that Ubuntu is the best choice if you’re a linux novice. Gentooers can’t be afraid to go command line in the blink of an eye, and read the forums and wiki. The resources are there, you just have to use them.
↓ Quote | 27/6/2006
Andrew said:
That’s why I’ll never try Gentoo. It’s just not for me at the moment (or ever if that aspect of it remains). To put it bluntly I’m not interested in coding my way to my desktop. I just want it to work. I believe that linux is on the verge of surpassing the other closed operating systems out there, however there are elements that still need to be sorted out.
I’ve not gotten into any of the programmes because I’ve still not been able to sort out my bloody graphics card. The guys on the forum have been fantastic but still, I shouldn’t have to go through all this shit to sort it out.
I’m not complaining mind, simply because I knew there would be some teething problems with my transition which is why I opted to test the waters and see how I felt about the whole thing before making the clean cut. I’m not giving up just yet until I’ve got everything sorted out, but I’m definitely not having fun at this point (and I haven’t even started really…)
↓ Quote | 27/6/2006
Andrew said:
My problem with gentoo is that i use linux to do my work not play around with it. When i want to install something, i want it installed in the next 5 or 10 minutes, unlike gentoo that depending on the application it would take me hours or days of compiling.
Antyway, back “ontopic”, Khaled: could you give some hints about your problem? What gfx card you talking about?
↓ Quote | 27/6/2006
I feel your pain, Khaled. I really do love Linux and I keep wanting to boot to it but I always get that “ugh, what am I going to have to figure out today” feeling. I am sure I would get more comfortable with it if I spent more time using it but that is precisely the problem - time. For the most part, I just want to get things done and even Ubuntu has a steeper than acceptable learning curve.
That begs the question of “what should it look like?” God forbid, I will say it…a Mac!!! (Insert disclaimer that I am NOT a crazed Mac user here). My wife just talked me into getting a Mac for her and after one week with it, I am trying to figure out a way to commandeer it from her. Technically speaking, it is much of what I want from Linux (ie. Unix) but painfully easy to use. I have realized that I will pay $80 for iLife if it means I will save 2 days of learning how to install and use 10 Linux packages to do the same thing.
At the end of the day, I have to ask myself if my mother or father could use what I am developing/implementing. If the answer involves “packages, forums, commands, etc.” and not a simple “yes,” then I know I am off. Right now, I would receive a LOT of calls from my parents if I gave them a Linux box.
↓ Quote | 27/6/2006
I would love if Linux would implement a system for installing software like a MAC. drag and drop. No command line (no matter how easy). Just drag and drop the package. Even the windows install is better than installing on linux distro’s. I have used all three systems. Linux is so close to being main stream. They need to cater to people that just want it to work out the box.
↓ Quote | 27/6/2006
With Synaptic there is no need to ever see a command line, in fact in Ubuntu there is another layer on top of that, the “Add/Remove” bit on the applications menu is ridiculously simple. Run the program choose “sound & Video” (for example), choose Amarok or whatever, press install. Go make a cup of tea. It’s that simple.
Even stuff that it isn’t in the repositories can be made simple with an autopackage (such as xara is provided in)
p.s. Khaled if you want any help editing xorg.conf to get your card working drop me an email. Mine works like a dream, but I did need a little linux knowledge at first.
↓ Quote | 28/6/2006
Ahhh Ubuntu…(or Linux in general really)…How painful you’ve been to me. When I got my laptop a few months ago I was really keen on installing Linux, so I decided to go the Ubuntu route. But alas, Linux doesn’t enjoy playing with my ATI Radeon X700 and upon first installing Ubuntu (being unaware of the problems ahead) I received a blank screen. After some forumizing, I was able to use a basic Vesa setup so I could actually see my session, although at 1024×768 (my laptop’s res is 1280×800…). I tried installing the ATI drivers, but failed. Then I decided to give Suse a try, but had the same problem of course. Not to mention that Ubuntu cocked up my partitions so I ended up getting 18.6GB for Windows (far from the 70gigs I had intended…), which I only recently remedied with a complete format.
I still really want to try Linux for an extended period of time, but I just want some step by step instructions that WILL WORK. Help anyone? Oh, and I agree with the problems with having to use the command line to install things, tis not fun when things start to go wrong or people give you cryptic commands which you have no idea what to do with.
↓ Quote | 29/6/2006
Dylan, I swear it’s like you read my mind, and actually described what I’ve been going through to the T!!! Except it’s nvidia for me. It’s seriously fucked up as I’m going to have to do a complete hard disk swipe and then try and install stuff from there.
In many respects I was wrong about Linux being ready for the prime time, my experience and obviously yours as well shows that this is actually the case. Uncanny and really, really annoying.
↓ Quote | 29/6/2006
Those last two comments have convinced me I am not ready for Linux, just yet. I do not want to have to fight my computer.
True I fight XP on a daily basis but that is a practiced fight and now quite a simple one.
↓ Quote | 29/6/2006
Hey Andre, just saw your post, no worries dude I’ve got the PC doctor coming to my house to sort the shit out for me. Thanks for the offer though.
↓ Quote | 2/7/2006
Ubuntu is still not ready for humans.
↓ Quote | 24/6/2008